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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
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 Posted - 2011/05/22 : 23:45:17
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
I think whoever wrote the bible didn't bank on people taking it as seriously and literally as maybe they should have. I have no problem with people believing what they want but you know the bible seems kind of like a franchise surrounding the actual product to me. Even if I was a christian I wouldn't really take it too seriously.
it's also a collective of several different people's accounts that's been translated several times.
There's nothing like 2000 year old conflicting opinions and chinese whispers that have been translated several times to cause confusion.
I don't have a problem with people believing what they want to believe either... But to me, there's a difference between faith and blind faith. Religion seems like blind faith to me.
Surely if there was something as powerful as a God, you'd see specific examples of it every day. Why would he judge people on their worthiness by taking part in a guessing game? I don't really get it.
I'm not having a go either, i thoroughly understand that maybe i just don't get it. If anyone who is religious can explain it to me, i'm all ears.
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NekoShuffle
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 00:41:42
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
I think whoever wrote the bible didn't bank on people taking it as seriously and literally as maybe they should have. I have no problem with people believing what they want but you know the bible seems kind of like a franchise surrounding the actual product to me. Even if I was a christian I wouldn't really take it too seriously.
it's also a collective of several different people's accounts that's been translated several times.
There's nothing like 2000 year old conflicting opinions and chinese whispers that have been translated several times to cause confusion.
I don't have a problem with people believing what they want to believe either... But to me, there's a difference between faith and blind faith. Religion seems like blind faith to me.
Surely if there was something as powerful as a God, you'd see specific examples of it every day. Why would he judge people on their worthiness by taking part in a guessing game? I don't really get it.
I'm not having a go either, i thoroughly understand that maybe i just don't get it. If anyone who is religious can explain it to me, i'm all ears.
what you believe about your immediate surroundings makes a big part of who you are and how you identify yourself so it is a choice we all make as humans, some people I think are more likely to go by what is scientific and some people choose to believe more personal things like god and father figures and will choose to believe those things. so in other words I think some people are just chemically different in some way, not good or bad but like that's how it's wired up
although some stuff was for the survival of the times, Jews not being able to eat pork/meat was because it wasn't safe to eat and would rot in the heat of the desert. I think the 10 commandments is also basically like "don't be a dick" but in stone to enforce it
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jenks
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United Kingdom
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19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 15:14:54
All humans (and many other animals too) have superstition hard-wired into their brains, we see correlation and assume cause, it's how we work things out. Some people overcome that, some people can't, and some people don't even want to.
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Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 16:30:27
quote:
Originally posted by Ionosphere:
What I've always found strange about these predictions, especially from so called 'Christians'
is that they choose to ignore the words of Christ -
"No man knows the day or hour."
Seems fairly straight forward to me....
THANK YOU!!!!!
I'm glad someone gets the point. There will always be idiots who think they can somehow beat God, but time and time again the fact that they are idiots will get slammed in their faces.
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
mmm bible isnt that straightforward though..in other parts it says things like this..
"the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken..I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place"
Matthew 24:29-35 NAB
apparently Jesus said that 2000 years ago, and that generation he was talking to have long since passed..
Indeed it has. However, those things happened about two or three days after being spoken and so present no issue. During his crucifixion, there was an earthquake and a complete darkness over the land (certainly the greater region, I recall reading third party reports of a suspected eclipse and earthquakes from that time). I don't think those events are a stretched conclusion from the passage.
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
it's also a collective of several different people's accounts that's been translated several times.
While that is true, there are many many existing copies letters that comprise the new testament written in the original language. Our translations of them are (just approximately) 99.8% accurate, plus or minus 0.2%.
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Edited by - Lilley on 2011/05/23 16:31:22 |
Triquatra
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 16:45:44
hey, theres plenty more where that came from ;)
http://www.evilbible.com/end_times.htm
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Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 16:53:09
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
hey, theres plenty more where that came from ;)
http://www.evilbible.com/end_times.htm
If you really want, I can answer pretty much every single one of those. Many of them are the same or repeated, really only about 10 points there I think. Several of the first few are talking about his death and resurrection, some about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70AD, and other bits and pieces. If that's the best they've come up with it's really quite a poor effort.
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 18:07:00
to be completly honest I really don't care - I was just keeping the debate alive, i've not actually looked at the rest of the site other cared enough to go into it in any detail as its not a subject that interests me.
debating the bible, to me, is like fitting wheels to a tomato.
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2011/05/23 18:08:11 |
latininxtc
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United States
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 18:27:10
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
to be completly honest I really don't care - I was just keeping the debate alive, i've not actually looked at the rest of the site other cared enough to go into it in any detail as its not a subject that interests me.
debating the bible, to me, is like fitting wheels to a tomato.
lol i feel the same way. just don't really care what's in the bible much
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Hard2Get
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 18:36:14
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
to be completly honest I really don't care - I was just keeping the debate alive, i've not actually looked at the rest of the site other cared enough to go into it in any detail as its not a subject that interests me.
debating the bible, to me, is like fitting wheels to a tomato.
Interesting analogy lol.
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 19:42:04
that said, I trust what Lilley says about it without having to go research up on it.
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Future_Shock
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Australia
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Posted - 2011/05/23 : 21:38:38
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
it's also a collective of several different people's accounts that's been translated several times.
While that is true, there are many many existing copies letters that comprise the new testament written in the original language. Our translations of them are (just approximately) 99.8% accurate, plus or minus 0.2%.
[/quote]
0.2% is HUGE though. There's how many words in the bible? Let's say a million. That's TWENTY THOUSAND possible mistranslated words. I wouldn't feel comfortable following a religion around that. There's some pretty crucial words in there that would change everything if they were mistranslated.
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Lilley
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Posted - 2011/05/24 : 01:07:11
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
While that is true, there are many many existing copies letters that comprise the new testament written in the original language. Our translations of them are (just approximately) 99.8% accurate, plus or minus 0.2%.
0.2% is HUGE though. There's how many words in the bible? Let's say a million. That's TWENTY THOUSAND possible mistranslated words. I wouldn't feel comfortable following a religion around that. There's some pretty crucial words in there that would change everything if they were mistranslated.
Actually, it's only 2000.
I'll eat my words here.
I was being tongue in cheek. Our predominant current translations really are virtually spot on perfect. Now, lets run with the situation you brought up. Keeping in mind that I was particularly saying new testament (OT is even more accurate), a quick google search tells me there are about 140 000 words in the NT. At a 0.2% error margin you're looking at 280 mistranslated words. That is one word wrong in every 500. That is one word wrong in roughly 25-30 sentences, or about one wrong word per page. No, this really would not alter any understanding that could be gained, particularly when taking into account that where there are translated errors the word used has a similar definition.
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NekoShuffle
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Posted - 2011/05/24 : 01:22:50
I think really at the end of the day whether you are christian or atheist the world is here to enjoy and appreciate. I'm pretty sure god would be happy with me just appreciating the world and everything even if I didn't follow the bible to a T. I'd love to see the looks on the faces of Jehovah witness's when I roll up in heaven and fist bump god even though I didn't follow mainstream religion.
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Future_Shock
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Posted - 2011/05/24 : 01:47:15
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
While that is true, there are many many existing copies letters that comprise the new testament written in the original language. Our translations of them are (just approximately) 99.8% accurate, plus or minus 0.2%.
0.2% is HUGE though. There's how many words in the bible? Let's say a million. That's TWENTY THOUSAND possible mistranslated words. I wouldn't feel comfortable following a religion around that. There's some pretty crucial words in there that would change everything if they were mistranslated.
Actually, it's only 2000.
I'll eat my words here.
I was being tongue in cheek. Our predominant current translations really are virtually spot on perfect. Now, lets run with the situation you brought up. Keeping in mind that I was particularly saying new testament (OT is even more accurate), a quick google search tells me there are about 140 000 words in the NT. At a 0.2% error margin you're looking at 280 mistranslated words. That is one word wrong in every 500. That is one word wrong in roughly 25-30 sentences, or about one wrong word per page. No, this really would not alter any understanding that could be gained, particularly when taking into account that where there are translated errors the word used has a similar definition.
mathfail. How did i come from a family of accountants LOL
But still, that's assuming the bible is correct in the first place. The translation was an extra tangent i went off on, but it's still a large collective of conflicting opinions more than 2000 years old.
And to be honest, that long ago, how could you be sure that any of them were really in their right mind? I'm not saying they werent but im saying how do you know?
That's the thing about it, there's so many variables and 'plot holes' (for lack of a better word) in the whole history of the entire idea.
And let's be honest here, how do you personally know that those letters that comprise the new testament are well-translated? Have you seen the originals? If you've seen copies (i doubt) how do you know they werent altered?
I'm sorry but there's no proof of jesus or anything he did. There's here-say.
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Edited by - Future_Shock on 2011/05/24 01:48:23 |
Lilley
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Posted - 2011/05/24 : 02:10:13
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
mathfail. How did i come from a family of accountants LOL
But still, that's assuming the bible is correct in the first place. The translation was an extra tangent i went off on, but it's still a large collective of conflicting opinions more than 2000 years old.
And to be honest, that long ago, how could you be sure that any of them were really in their right mind? I'm not saying they werent but im saying how do you know?
That's the thing about it, there's so many variables and 'plot holes' (for lack of a better word) in the whole history of the entire idea.
And let's be honest here, how do you personally know that those letters that comprise the new testament are well-translated? Have you seen the originals? If you've seen copies (i doubt) how do you know they werent altered?
I'm sorry but there's no proof of jesus or anything he did. There's here-say.
Forgive me for being direct. How much clue do you actually have about the bible? Because from all the above, I'd give it roughly absolutely no clue at all.
No I haven't seen the originals. I know people who have seen direct copies of the originals, I know people who can read the original script fluently.
As for your question's I could answer them one by one, but they are quite possibly the most gone over questions in the entire christendom and have been more than satisfactorily answered.
If you've seen copies (i doubt) how do you know they werent altered?
Decent question. In fact, some have. Mark 16:9-20 is a great example. IMO that should not be part of the bible and should never have been. There is another example in John, I can't recall the reference. How do we know this? It was originally included because the main copies of Mark's gospel had them at the time, but as archeologists discovered earlier copies, they were found to be missing. That is, at some point, someone came along and tagged it on the end and it survived where the original didnt. That is now compensated for.
The earliest excerpt of the new testament we have is a small portion of a book of john dated at about 40 years after John's gospel was thought to be written. There are other first century examples. I forget the figure, but all up there are about ten thousand distributed copies of the new testament from the first few centuries throughout all the bits and pieces picked up from the ground. If my memory serves me correctly, the most accurate after the NT is Homer's Iliad (or perhaps the other one) of which the earliest example we have is from 800 years after it was written, yet it is considered accurate to the original. Simply put, there is absolutely no doubt the bible has not differed from what it was 2000 years ago.
I'm sorry but there's no proof of jesus or anything he did. There's here-say.
By that logic, there is no proof Galileo ever lived, nor Issac Newton, or Da Vinci.
No, you are quite wrong. There is more proof of Jesus and what he did than any other historical figure (pre 18-19th century or so). The historicity of Jesus is the most over analysed aspect of the bible, bar none, and has held up every single time and will continue to do so in future.
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Edited by - Lilley on 2011/05/24 02:11:28 |
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