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Tutorial: Creating a SuperSaw in Reason.

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The Deviant
Senior Member

United Kingdom
329 posts
Joined: May, 2004

Posted - 2005/04/11 : 18:40:09

This is a step by step tutorial on how to create a SuperSaw lead in Reason. I have written this as clear and easy to follow as I can, And is for anyone who is finding it hard to get a fat sound out of Reason.

To follow this tutorial, Start a new song with an empty rack.

1: Create a MIXER and lable this SuperSaw. This will be used to submix the individual layers that will make up the sound.

2: Creat a SUBTRACTOR, Which will be auto routed to Channel 1 of the MIXER. Turn on Oscilator 2, Slide filter 1's FREQUENCY to 127, Slide SUSTAIN on the Amp Envelope to 127, And on the velocity section (bottom right), Turn Amp fully right to 63, And turn F.Env to the center which is 0.

Note: This is now the new Init patch.

3: Creat 2 more SUBTRACTORS, These will be auto routed into channels 2 & 3 of the mixer.

4: Copy the patch from SUBTRACTOR 1 and past onto SUBTRACTORS 2 & 3.

5: Rename SUBTRACTOR 1 to SAW 1, and do the same on the other 2 SUBTRACTORS but changing the numbers to, to 2 & 3.

Note: You should now have 3 SUBTRACTORS labled in decending order, SAW 1, SAW 2 & SAW 3, Each with the NEW Init patch and routed to Channels 1, 2 & 3 of the Mixer labled SuperSaw.

The next steps are Detuning the synths.

6: On the SUBTRACTOR Labled SAW 1 Detune Osc 1 to, -8 Cents and Osc 2 to +8 Cents.

7: On the SUBTRACTOR Labled SAW 2 Detune Osc 1 to, -14 Cents and Osc 2 to +14 Cents.

8: On the SUBTRACTOR Labled SAW 3 Detune Osc 1 to, -22 Cents and Osc 2 to +22 Cents.

Draw or record some notes into one of the sequencer tracks, Copy and past these notes onto all 3 tracks so you can hear how its sounds.

Next we need to add a sub layer to make it fatter.

9: Below the SUBTRACTOR Labled SAW 3, Create 3 more SUBTRACTORS. These will be auto routed into channels 4, 5 & 6 of the mixer.

10: Rename these 3 new SUBTRACTORS in decending order to, SQUARE 1, SQUARE 2 and SQUARE 3.

11: Copy the patch from SAW 1 and past onto SQUARE 1. On both Oscilators, change the waveform to SQUARE and lower the Octave by 1 to 3.

12: Now do the same with Saw 2 to SQUARE 2, And SAW 3 to SQUARE 3, And make the same changes as in step 11.

In the sequencer, Copy the notes to the 3 new tracks to hear how it sounds.

That is now the basic raw sound and needs to be processed with effects.

The next steps are to add effects and some manual routing needs to be done.

13: Below the SUBTRACTOR Labled SQUARE 3. Hold down shift (to temporarlly disable auto routing) and Create a MIXER.

14: Scroll to the Mixer labled SuperSaw and Flip the rack around (press Tab) and disconect this from the Hardware Interface.

15: Click on the Hardware Interface, Hold down shift and create a FILTER (this will place the Filter between the Hardware Interface and the SuperSaw Mixer) and lable this SuperSaw Filter.

16: Click on the FILTER, Hold down shift and create an EQ. (this will place the EQ next to the filter), and lable this SuperSaw EQ

17: Connect the master out on the MIXER labled SuperSaw to the Input of the FILTER, Then from the Output of the FILTER to the Input of the EQ.

18: Connect the Output of the EQ into channel 1 of the new MIXER at the bottom of the rack, Then take this MIXERS master output and connect this to channels 1 & 2 of the Hardware Interface.

You should now have sound again, And any new devices created will be routed to the main mixer and not the SuperSaw Submix.

Next we need to set up the filter to get that sharp short decay sound.

19: First create a sequencer track for the filter. (this will be used for the gate to trigger the envelope and for recording automation), Then from left to right apply these settings. Turn the FREQUENCY to 127, RESONANCE to 30, ENVELOPE AMOUNT to 20, VELOCITY to 10, MODE to LP 24, ATTACK to 0, DECAY to 55, SUSTAIN to 0, RELEASE to 40.

20: In the sequencer, Copy the notes and past them onto the FILTERS sequencer, Hit play and sweep the FREQUENCY of the filter.

Note: A small gap (1/64) between the end and the start of notes will give the best sound when filtering.

Next we need to EQ the sound to smooth out the harsness from adding resonance.

21: On section A of the EQ, turn the FREQUENCY to 127, Q to 20 and Gain to -20 (That will smooth out the harshness). Then turn on section B of the EQ and turn the FREQUENCY to 92, Q to 22 and Gain to 15 (That will give a boost to around 3KHz, and make it sound a little brighter).

Note: If you want to add more insert effects (eg: Unison or Distortion) click on the EQ and then create the device, This will insert and auto route the device in the correct way. Any device that you want before the FILTER will need to be manually routed.

All the settings above are a good starting point for you to tweak and to get a sound that you are happy with. DETUNE, WAVESHAPE, and OCTAVE are the most important.

Finally to add some Reverb and Delay, I won't go into detail as these are all about individual tastes. Set up a Reverb as a send on the main Mixer and also a couple of Delays panned left and right.

THEN SAVE IT!

It doesn't take a genius to see that the more layers you add the fatter it gets.

Hope this helps.

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zippy
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
920 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004

Posted - 2005/04/11 : 20:08:40

tutorial! great idea! more ppl should post these

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RobStar
New Member

Australia
49 posts
Joined: Jan, 2005

Posted - 2005/04/13 : 15:28:05

Instead of using a million subtractors and detuning them against one another, use the malstrom and select it's sawtooth*16 waveform. That's 16 sawtooth waveforms already detuned against one another. To get the equivalant with the subtractor you would need to create 8 subtractors. Not only would that be tedious and time consuming to set up, but assigning each subtractor the same midi data would be too CPU intensive on playback, especially if you wanted to detune 64+ oscillators against each other. That would require 32 subtractors, yet only 2 malstroms.

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ryg0r
Advanced Member

Australia
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Joined: Aug, 2002

34 hardcore releases

Posted - 2005/04/13 : 17:00:41

The maelstroms saw*16 doesnt have the same timbre as layers and layers of subtrators. The maelstrom uses sampled wave forms where as the subby generates them, giving a much different sound.

quote:
To get the equivalant with the subtractor you would need to create 8 subtractors. Not only would that be tedious and time consuming to set up, but assigning each subtractor the same midi data would be too CPU intensive on playback

Whaddya using a 486 or something there? I've got a cool hoover demo that uses a stack of subtractors and the cpu usage doesnt move a notch.

quote:
especially if you wanted to detune 64+ oscillators against each other. That would require 32 subtractors, yet only 2 malstroms.

4 Maelstroms. 64 divided by 16 is 4.

Sure its tedious, but it sounds better and with the Combinator you dont have to freak out that much, just make 1 Combi patch and put it on the net.

Deviant, I tried that RNS you sent me and it gave me a bad format, is it Reason 3?

-=[ryg0r]=-

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The Deviant
Senior Member

United Kingdom
329 posts
Joined: May, 2004

Posted - 2005/04/13 : 17:24:48

quote:
Originally posted by ryg0r:
Deviant, I tried that RNS you sent me and it gave me a bad format, is it Reason 3?

Yes, though only using 2.5 devices. I thought it would still open. I'll send you them as combi patchs when you get reason 3.

Creating layered sounds like this is now better in reason 3, All those subtracts go inside a combinator and are played from 1 sequencer track. And you can do some great control mapping like, have 1 knob lower the cutoff of the filter on all 6 subtractors while raising the resonance, and increase distortion amount. Also this is where the new line mixer comes in handy to submix layered synths, and then its all routed through the new M-Class EQ, which is ****ing ACE. And all saved as a patch. Reason 3 is a must have uprade for layering sounds.

RobStar, the sawtooth 16 wave sounds shit, stack up some maltroms and then compare to stacked up subtractors, Theres alot of difference.

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RobStar
New Member

Australia
49 posts
Joined: Jan, 2005

Posted - 2005/04/14 : 13:27:23

-walks in and sighs in disappointment-

quote:
Originally posted by The Deviant:
RobStar, the sawtooth 16 wave sounds shit, stack up some maltroms and then compare to stacked up subtractors, Theres alot of difference.

Can I compare it to a JP8000 supersaw waveform and see if you can tell whether there's "alot of difference"? Okay I will anyway: in the following link there are two notes. One I created using one instance of the malstroms sawtooth *16 waveform(plus a bit of EQing), while another is a sampled JP8000 supersaw waveform.

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~nunrg/Comparison.mp3

Can you tell which sample sounds "shit"?

quote:
The maelstroms saw*16 doesnt have the same timbre as layers and layers of subtrators.

Well I hope that the timbre qualities that you irrefutably claim the malstrom lacks in comparison to the subtractor are distinguishable compared to the very waveform you're trying to emulate: the supersaw waveform of the JP8000.

Anyway, I never said anything about the subtractor being "shit" or not being able to reproduce the supersaw waveform. You two mozarts are under the impression the malstrom sounds like shit, when it can acheive the supersaw sound in 1/10th of the time of the subtractor.

To get it right with the subtrator tho, you have to know:
a. How many detuned oscillators there are in the JP8000s supersaw.
and
b. What the detuned spread of the oscillators are (and I can tell you it's not 8/14/22 cents).

quote:
4 Maelstroms. 64 divided by 16 is 4.

It only takes 2 malstroms to detune 64 oscillators.

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ryg0r
Advanced Member

Australia
2,807 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002

34 hardcore releases

Posted - 2005/04/15 : 03:11:16

quote:
To get it right with the subtrator tho, you have to know:
a. How many detuned oscillators there are in the JP8000s supersaw.

7.

The Access TI uses 9. They call it a HyperSaw.

Judging by the stereoness of the 2nd sample, I'm going that for the maelstrom.

Nevertheless, its not about the jp8000, its about phatness. We call it a supersaw, not because of sound its trying to emulate(the supersaw patch on the jp8000), but rather because it really IS a bunch of saws which make it super. Like SuperTed. He's not just a teddy bear. He's a SuperTed from all that cosmic dust. The subtractor has cosmic dust, thats why you can unscrew the screws. Wait a minute. Why do I feel like I'm giving the chewbacca defense?

quote:
It only takes 2 malstroms to detune 64 oscillators.

sorry, your right there. 2 Osc's running the saw*16 each will give us the 64.

quote:
You two mozarts are under the impression the malstrom sounds like shit

First off, allow me to show off my shiny artist's medal

Then, I'm not saying it sounds like crap, I'm saying it better suited to pads, not leads. The Subtractor sounds better to me, thats all I'm saying.

I'll post an mp3 of my subtractor supersawness. Wait a sec. I already have. Check out my entry into the production comp. :)

-=[ryg0r]=-

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The Deviant
Senior Member

United Kingdom
329 posts
Joined: May, 2004

Posted - 2005/04/15 : 13:21:11

Ok, I was not trying to emulate the JP8000, I have never sat and listened to one. I called it SuperSaw cos' it's not exactly wimpy is it?

I said the Sawtooth 16 wave was shit, not the malstrom. I use the Malstrom alot.

I think we are now running into the area of Taste, I prefer the Subtractors for this type of sound, You prefer the Malstrom. Lets just leave it at that.

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RobStar
New Member

Australia
49 posts
Joined: Jan, 2005

Posted - 2005/04/15 : 18:44:22

Any reference to the "supersaw" lead refers back to the JP8000 which made the sound famous. It WAS the holy grail of electronic leads, and was what made people associate the word "supersaw" with its "supersaw" waveform.

And the Sawtooth*16 sounds like shit? Damn, I got it pretty close to the JP8000. Guess the JP8000 must sound like shit too? P.S. The stereo spread was because I didn't have the malstrom in mono. Doh!

And it's not a "taste" issue. I was merely pointing out bad practice by you as you were doing additive synthesis with a subtractive synthesizer. I mean, if you wanted to detune 16 oscillators using the subtractor, would you:
a. create 8 instances of subtractors, or
b. one instance with unison?

?

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RobStar
New Member

Australia
49 posts
Joined: Jan, 2005

Posted - 2005/04/15 : 18:55:18

Also, what makes you prefer the subtractor anyway? 8 subtractors with their saw waves detuned will sound exactly the same as 8 malstroms with their saw waves detuned.

Personally I think it has to do the fact the default waveform on the subtractor is set on saw, while the default on the malstrom is the shitty sine wave.

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ryg0r
Advanced Member

Australia
2,807 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002

34 hardcore releases

Posted - 2005/04/16 : 16:15:27

Repeat after me:

T|-|3 5|_|8813 15 |33T
T|-|3 5|_|8813 15 |33T
T|-|3 5|_|8813 15 |33T
T|-|3 5|_|8813 15 |33T

quote:
Personally I think it has to do the fact the default waveform on the subtractor is set on saw, while the default on the malstrom is the shitty sine wave.

I mainly us the maelstrom for |33t sound fx using its sweet mods and comb filters.

quote:
I was merely pointing out bad practice by you as you were doing additive synthesis with a subtractive synthesizer

First you are using incorrect terminology.

quote:
In additive synthesis pure tones are added together to create more complex composite timbres.

Pure tones aka sine waves. A single frequency tone with no harmonic content.

quote:
The basic principle of subtractive synthesis is the use of complex waveforms rich in harmonic or inharmonic information which are then spectrally shaped by filters and dynamically shaped by envelope generators.

That quote is stolen from some random website found with google. Its the most simple method of synthesis. Which you can read about here:

http://www.sfu.ca/sca/Manuals/ZAAPf/s/subtractive_synth.html

Why is it called subtractive synthesis?

quote:
The term "subtractive" is used because the steady state, harmonically rich waveform is attenuated in amplitude and frequency content to the desired level.

There is nothing wrong with the addition of many saw waves to get a "supersaw". Yes I know where name comes from. And I have my way with a jp8080 and while I do love it, I prefer to keep everything in Reason, so external gear is not often used. Thats my taste. Its the way I do things.

quote:
b. one instance with unison?

The Unison sounds cool, but is not a perfect detuner. It gives extra stereo-ness (which sometimes is perfect) but for me and my taste, is not desired. At least on leads. For voices the unison is well wikid.

Lastly the subtractor has a certain imperfection, analogue-i-ness rather than the graintable synthesis of the maelstrom. I like it. It has nothing to do with the init patch on either synth.

You can read about that here: http://www.psylux.com/reason/ReasonSubtractor.html

The fact is, that it DOES come down to taste. For me at least anyway.

-=[ryg0r]=-

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