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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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 Posted - 2014/12/03 : 20:39:48
It seems that some of the codecs and bitrates aren't quite at the levels that are supported by today's hardware. DSPs "sounding like" higher bitrates no longer applies because everyone's using them so 128k sounds like 128k, but when the dsps were new, you could say it sounded like a higher bitrate compared to before. You could say something like 96k aac sounds like 128-192k MP3, but I can certainly tell 64k aac+ is not even close to CD quality, or even matches 128k MP3. CD quality means something like FLAC or any other lossless format, which a lossy format can approach if reaching the 192 (aac or opus) or 320k+ (MP3s) range. Now I don't expect CD quality, as that would be a huge bandwidth drain on the server end (many people's home connections can stream FLAC no problem and still have bandwidth for other tasks).
So what I'm asking is how many of you would have a problem with dropping the current MP3 streams and replacing them with a 192k aac+ and a 64k opus for those who can receive opus streams on the device they are using and 32k opus on those really tight data plans (it'd sound bad, but it's not absolutely terrible for those with no choice). Running on Icecast ( http://icecast.org/ ) the server would be able to broadcast using the latest version of just about any codec with no licensing cost.
The new codec list should be as follows
192k aac+ (same audio format as youtube)
64k aac+ (for those who can't get high speed internet and cant use opus)
64k opus (much better sound quality than aac+ but isn't widely supported on mobile)
32k opus (for those who really can't waste their data on anything, or on dialup)
To get opus streaming on android or iOS, use either vlc media player (Android & iOS) or Firefox (Android only) This would require selection of stream instead of using a pls file (pls support is terrible on mobile, and only works with certain paid apps, which support both pls and opus)
If anyone has problems with streaming aac+, reply so no one gets left out. I really want this change, but if people can't (Nokia Phones? Old Blackberrys? I'm sure even those support aac, but I may be wrong), I can suffer for you. Remember, ipod classics don't have internet to begin with, so don't worry about it not working on your ipod classic, and internet connected idevices and other smartphones support aac+.
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2014/12/03 : 21:12:03
If anyone has better ideas to use for codecs, feel free to speak up.
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,565 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/12/04 : 03:02:13
Been having this conversation with you on email, opus is too new, I'm not writing my own support for it for icecast and shoutcast, I don't know anything that really supports opus. Everything supports MP3.
As much as it would be cool frankly speaking I can't afford to run a 192 ACC+ stream full time, at that bitrate servers and bandwidth is expensive because you are paying for the entire bandwidth not just usage. ie if you want 500 slots at 192k you are paying for 500 x 192k whether or not you get 1 or 500 listeners.
Our listeners are really picking up greatly over the past few months, so I'm not going to rule anything out but this what we have for now.
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2014/12/04 : 03:48:44
What is 1 device that doesn't support aac+? PCs play it, Android, iOS, and any other half decent smartphone play it, so why not drop the 96k and 128k mp3s and replace it with a single 192k aac? Maybe not opus yet, but a higher bitrate aac stream would be awesome.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,170 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/12/04 : 08:01:54
quote:
Originally posted by phly95:
What is 1 device that doesn't support aac+? PCs play it, Android, iOS, and any other half decent smartphone play it, so why not drop the 96k and 128k mp3s and replace it with a single 192k aac? Maybe not opus yet, but a higher bitrate aac stream would be awesome.
He just mentioned it. It's all about the costs. From both server side and client side.
As an example on the client side, if you have a computer and have a (unlimited) broadband subscription, that would be great. But when it comes to mobile devices, it's not even sure the listeners (definitly not the crowd Hardcore usually obtain) have an unlimited or a large limit on their broadband bandwidth). I have, for example, only 1 GB limit on my smartphone, which would mean if I only use it to listen to a 192kbps stream, I would have 12hrs listen time
__________________________________
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,565 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/12/04 : 09:21:06
quote:
Originally posted by phly95:
What is 1 device that doesn't support aac+? PCs play it, Android, iOS, and any other half decent smartphone play it
The people with not half decent smart phones? HTML5 doesn't support AAC+ only media players do, I try to avoid flash like the plague and I have some new things up my sleeve that I am developing and testing at the moment.
I mean I get it, it would be cool to offer higher streams but I have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.... again nothing is off the table just not at this current place in time is it needed.
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2014/12/04 : 14:23:57
Server side, if you get rid of 96 and 128k MP3, then 196k aac costs less to output. I don't know what browser you're using (internet explorer?) Because both Chrome and Firefox (on PC and mac) support html5 aac, and even opus, so PCs aren't ones to worry about compatibility since they support everything.
Mobile however is a different story, but not by much. Just about everyone on mobile uses something like tunein radio, and from experience, every smartphone I've seen (even the really, really bad ones) could stream aac, it's aac is old enough that finding an internet connected device is hard. The only difficult format on mobile is opus, but lets forget about that for now.
Oh, but you can't stream 196k on your mobile? You still have the 64k aac stream to listen to. So no problems.
Find me a specific commonly used phone that only supports MP3 and can open an internet radio stream and then I'll understand.
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2014/12/04 : 14:26:01
Even Windows phone 7 supports aac.
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2014/12/04 : 19:38:52
Try putting a vote on the front page to see who can and cant stream aac.
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,565 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/12/05 : 00:58:32
AAC and AAC+ are different codecs
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2014/12/05 : 13:19:39
By aac I mean aac+. I've listened to aac+ streams on windows phone 7 (a very poor platform), PC, Mac, Linux, iOS, Chrome and Firefox html5 and they all work. Today, because aac+ is so common, most people don't bother writing the plus since people know what they mean. Of course a vote can't hurt.
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Edited by - phly95 on 2014/12/05 13:21:02 |
silver
Admin
Japan
12,565 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/12/08 : 02:10:11
AAC+ is not that common there is no HTML5 players naively (at the moment) to due the wrappers it uses
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2014/12/11 : 02:21:27
Found a solution, find original tracks on soundcloud and download (not stream cause soundcloud loves 128k mp3 streaming too) at 320k quality. Still love getting the station on my phone and using it to find new songs :)
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2014/12/12 : 02:06:51
Actually, I guess that trick doesn't work with everything (eg. S3RL cake with Gammer sprinkles)
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,565 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/12/12 : 03:17:09
We don't source our mixes from soundcloud so unless the DJ has uploaded it you wont find it, the mixes are mostly made for our radio station only.
I extended the olive branch to you with a beta invite for our monthly donating member which can get access to a beta 256k mp3 stream, but you didn't want to do it.
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phly95
Starting Member
United States
11 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2015/01/29 : 00:48:31
I got banned from paypal, so I can't donate.
sorry 'bout that
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Edited by - phly95 on 2015/02/05 22:32:34 |
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