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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
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 Posted - 2014/03/04 : 07:41:27
So what is everyone's thoughts on what is going on there, and what exactly is everyone hearing about it? I'm sure each of our media has a different way of interpreting the facts about what's going on there so just wondering what everyone's thoughts on the current events over there.
With the Winter Paralympics about to begin this weekend, the US and Great Britain are not going to send government representatives to the games, but the athletes are still participating. The G8 summit that is supposed to happen in Sochi in the summer looks like it won't happen at all with all the members sans Russia currently not attending. Our president is in talks with the EU to consider putting sanctions on Russia.
And slightly related, but the World Cup to be held in Quatar in 2022 is under investigation for corruption that involved their winning bid to host the event, and I believe that Russia's winning bid is being scrutinized as well. I think regardless of the report that's supposed to be released in 2015, FIFA really should consider moving the World Cup elsewhere. They could give it to Spain and Portugal, which were the runner-up winning bid to host in 2018, or the US and even the UK can host, considering that we have stadiums completely capable of holding such an event throughout each of our nations.
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wong
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United Kingdom
2,991 posts
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 08:22:58
Corruption in the world cup hosting bid? Never, who would of thought
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jenks
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United Kingdom
3,687 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 10:01:08
The West will pussy it again, and it will be another South Ossetia. Which is silly really, because Russia ability to maintain a sustained deployment is laughable.
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Torpex
Advanced Member
Poland
824 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 10:19:49
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 10:33:08
If EU puts sanctions to Russia, it would be disastrous for my country. But they won't.
IMHO what US (Kerry) did, was burn Russia's bridges, probably on purpose. If Russia backs now, it looks like their backing away because of US. Also Kerry's "you don't just invade a country" was kinda funny.
Ukraine military is handling it really well TBH. Under great pressure, but their not responding to the penis comparison ordeal.
Kinda surprised on Poland's stance. Torpex are you really sending troops to the Ukrainian boarder? I've like seen it mentioned in many places, but not on the "big" news agencies.
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Elipton
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 10:40:20
Aren't most of Polands troops deployed in the UK at the moment?
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Torpex
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Poland
824 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 10:49:06
Regarding Polish troop movement, it's unclear at the moment. It might be a case of people being super-sensitive to sights of AFVs, trucks, jets, taking pictures and making it seem like extraordinary stuff is happening. It might well be exercise, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was an element of precalculated demonstration involved.
To be clear: our military is on more or less the same technological level as the Russians, but roughly 10 times less powerful. The lack of significant air power and air defence is the biggest issue. The Russian military in the Kaliningrad Oblast alone is probably enough to deal with our forces. But of course, if any direct confrontation were to actually happen, NATO would probably have no choice but to mount a bigger counter-move.
Aaand of course this might still be a valid strategic outcome...
...in which case most of Poland, incl. yours truly, becomes water vapour. ;)
But yeah, at the moment it doesn't seem like it'll end in anything othen than mild sanctions. Interesting to see further development in the Crimea - it really is positively surprising that no actual shooting has taken place anywhere, despite huge tensions.
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djDMS
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 11:27:08
Putin does keep repeating that Russia are trying to keep out of it though. And to be fair, he is a pretty upfront guy.
Maybe they'll just do what most big powers do and not interfere unless they have to!
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Elipton
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 11:35:08
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
Maybe they'll just do what most big powers do and not interfere unless they have to!
They have nearing 25,000 Russian troops on Ukrainian sovereign territory with de facto control in Crimea, blockading the ports, airports and the Ukrainian military base and are conducting exercises with 150,000 troops near the Ukrainian border.
Kinda past not interfering
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Edited by - Elipton on 2014/03/04 11:35:28 |
Torpex
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Poland
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 11:37:02
They're not keeping out of it though, that's the whole point. They've already moved in to "protect the Russian majority in the Crimea" and are using all kinds of pressure to force the Ukrainian interim government to back off.
EDIT: Elipton beat me to it.
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Edited by - Torpex on 2014/03/04 11:37:24 |
djDMS
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 11:43:31
So why is it being reported that he keeps saying they're not in there?
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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 13:43:41
From what I understand, Crimea is a republic (think of it like northern Ireland) within Ukraine, with a pro-russian government, and a population which consists over half Russians. As the Russians entered Crimea, it was reported that the Crimean president, Aksyonov, had said that he had appealed to Russia "for assistance in guaranteeing peace and calmness" which was a result of the new government in Kiev saying that the Crimean government is illegal and switching to some constitution or other that would be anti-Crimean independence as a republic and a few other politically dodgy moves.....ie: we're coming for you next.
http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-ukraine-russia-crimea-20140301,0,1978836.story#axzz2v09wbIl9
but the BBC don't want to report that Crimea asked for help before the Russians went in....guessing it doesn't make for such a good war story and makes the Russians look even worse?
the reason I say think of it like northern Ireland is that, what would the UK do if they felt the sovereignty of the republic of northern Ireland was under threat and the prime minister over there asked for help?
What did we do when the Argentine seemed to be edging towards the falkland islands?....we sent a couple of warships that way....
I'm not taking sides, but I am pretty stunned at how the western media are reporting this. They did a shocking job with Syria too.
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2014/03/04 13:50:18 |
Torpex
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Poland
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 13:53:14
It's the other way around though Triq, isn't it. If Crimea is like Northern Ireland, then UK = Ukraine, not Russia. Therefore, in your analogy, Ireland would be moving troops into Northern Ireland to "protect the Irish population there". Same goes for the Falklands analogy - it was officially British territory, so again, UK = Ukraine.
As much as I think argumentum ad hitlerum should be avoided, the 1938 Sudetenland annexation by Germany was officially to "protect the German population there".
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Edited by - Torpex on 2014/03/04 13:59:47 |
Triquatra
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 13:58:56
Depends at how you look at it, if it would make the analogy easier we could pretend that 55+% of people in northern Ireland consider themselves English? :P
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 14:05:15
Haha, well, true enough!
But if we still look at the analogy and pretend for a moment that both those regions are *independent* republics, with a majority British public, and a pro-british government, and the pro-british government asked us britains for help in protecting their sovereignty beacuse they felt they were about to get it - we'd be doing the same thing as the russians right now, and would have gone through the same process the Russians did.
I'm not defending whats going on at all, but there are large gaps in whats being reported in the UK, and in the way it's being reported.. :)
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2014/03/04 14:07:28 |
Torpex
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Poland
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Posted - 2014/03/04 : 14:08:10
I get your point, but I'd rather stick to the official "what is whose". The fact is that currently Crimea = Ukraine, and in this light the Russian stance is clearly a violation.
Whether or not Crimea *should* be Ukraine is another matter altogether, one in which I really have no opinion. There's a huge difference between Crimean (= Ukrainian, even if they consider themselves Russian) people rising up and wanting to secede and a foreign military intervention, which is what's happening at the moment. The Russian forces are not sticking to their Crimean bases, they're actively moving around the peninsula.
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