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Thread |
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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 Posted - 2014/02/17 : 19:51:00
quote:
Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
Wow. Does this mean it would be a good idea to go ahead and make some purchases now? or wait until after auction to see what happens?
buying now and the site goes down completly might net the artists 0 income, so unless you like thinking of yourself, only get the exclusives :P
I dont no how many units hardcore tracks sell now, maybe 300-400 downloads per track for an average label?
No where near that. A couple of mine got to 40 with about 20 sales each. The labels wouldnt even pay out because 'they hadnt earnt enough'. Going physical was the best decision I could have made. Digital music has never had much momentum, and it certainly doesnt have a future.
I think the way music is released now means that Hardcore has become a genre that only sells music to other DJs. Casual fans dont buy it, and I think that's largely why its a genre that limits itself so much
WOW, if thats near the figures then thats not good is it. I have some FREE tracks up on SC and yeah you could be right I have only had 50-60 downloads per track so far and they are free. I did always think with all the support tracks get with comments online that only a fraction of those people actually buy the tracks and that seems that way. Shame!
I think releasing free has been the best way to go in the interest of the music being heard and the artist name getting around. I was lucky enough to have a string of releases through 2011-2013 that were released free individually with artwork and they did really well. Helped my Archefluxx alias no end, and averaged about 400 downloads each time.
I think you could dress up a track on tid.com or beatport all you like and it won't do very well. I mean, it's relative to the social fanbase you have, but digital's nature is one that damages releases a lot. You're given the convenience, the ease and the accessibility to release cheaply and immediately, but you're releasing into a heavily saturated market whereby most tracks will get ignored or missed. There's not enough slack to do something special with a release or make it more popular beyond a thumbnail artwork and social media promotion.
It's a shame, but it's the penalty all music plays for production and label owning being something everyone can get involved with now.
With every genre seemingly being saturated with hundreds of labels jostling for attention, I'm very surprised that digital stores are struggling. It begs the question whether the music industry is moving on, whether there's a dip.
It could be down to the amount of labels and releases piling up and forcing these sites to spend more to host everything. This would be a problem if the number of customer numbers wasn't rising at the same rate as the amount of content they have to host.
edit: If that's the case, and server costs are driving these sites into bankruptcy, perhaps a new contract clause should be set up for future releases stating that they'll be hosted for 2 years before being taken down. That'd be pretty awful for everyone, but it's a relatively sustainable way of prolonging the digi-stores lives.
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Edited by - Elipton on 2014/02/17 19:56:46 |
Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
|
Posted - 2014/02/18 : 03:22:18
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
Wow. Does this mean it would be a good idea to go ahead and make some purchases now? or wait until after auction to see what happens?
buying now and the site goes down completly might net the artists 0 income, so unless you like thinking of yourself, only get the exclusives :P
I dont no how many units hardcore tracks sell now, maybe 300-400 downloads per track for an average label?
No where near that. A couple of mine got to 40 with about 20 sales each. The labels wouldnt even pay out because 'they hadnt earnt enough'. Going physical was the best decision I could have made. Digital music has never had much momentum, and it certainly doesnt have a future.
I think the way music is released now means that Hardcore has become a genre that only sells music to other DJs. Casual fans dont buy it, and I think that's largely why its a genre that limits itself so much
WOW, if thats near the figures then thats not good is it. I have some FREE tracks up on SC and yeah you could be right I have only had 50-60 downloads per track so far and they are free. I did always think with all the support tracks get with comments online that only a fraction of those people actually buy the tracks and that seems that way. Shame!
I think releasing free has been the best way to go in the interest of the music being heard and the artist name getting around. I was lucky enough to have a string of releases through 2011-2013 that were released free individually with artwork and they did really well. Helped my Archefluxx alias no end, and averaged about 400 downloads each time.
I think you could dress up a track on tid.com or beatport all you like and it won't do very well. I mean, it's relative to the social fanbase you have, but digital's nature is one that damages releases a lot. You're given the convenience, the ease and the accessibility to release cheaply and immediately, but you're releasing into a heavily saturated market whereby most tracks will get ignored or missed. There's not enough slack to do something special with a release or make it more popular beyond a thumbnail artwork and social media promotion.
It's a shame, but it's the penalty all music plays for production and label owning being something everyone can get involved with now.
With every genre seemingly being saturated with hundreds of labels jostling for attention, I'm very surprised that digital stores are struggling. It begs the question whether the music industry is moving on, whether there's a dip.
It could be down to the amount of labels and releases piling up and forcing these sites to spend more to host everything. This would be a problem if the number of customer numbers wasn't rising at the same rate as the amount of content they have to host.
edit: If that's the case, and server costs are driving these sites into bankruptcy, perhaps a new contract clause should be set up for future releases stating that they'll be hosted for 2 years before being taken down. That'd be pretty awful for everyone, but it's a relatively sustainable way of prolonging the digi-stores lives.
Nobody buys music any more.
The music industry made an estimated 87 billion in the 2012/13 financial year. I doubt more than 5% of that was actual music sales. Most of it was touring and synchronization.
I'm doing a paper over the next few months for college (i'm doing a bachelor of entertainment business management) on the 'change in consumer habits and the adaptation of the music model'. I suspect that it will reflect that the music model is too stubborn in changing due to the big labels (Universal, warner etc) refusing to do so and surrendering control and that's one of the main reasons so many MAJOR record labels have gone/are going belly up.
A business fails when it is unwilling or unable to adapt to consumer habits, basically.
__________________________________
New Future Shock Hardcore: https://soundcloud.com/futureshockgroup
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Edited by - Future_Shock on 2014/02/18 03:26:40 |
DJ SCOTT DEVOTION
Senior Member
United Kingdom
390 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2014/02/18 : 13:35:04
A lot of good points made above. I feel in hardcore as it is a small scene, the majors are without doubt using the label as there platform in return for album bookings and DJ sets out. There is no label in hardcore that can provide a living for it's owner nor album I would suspect.
Andy is so right, not many people do pay for music on-line any more, I used to see my tracks handed out to other DJs and then appear on illegal websites within weeks. I am surprised in the bad sales and that some of you guys say there worse than I thought. Saying that I have put out a few tracks free and in one week the latest one has only reached 146 d/l and that's free lol.
I look on TID and there is hardly any music on there I feel that constitutes to quality music, hence I thought the sales would be bigger now days for hardcore, how wrong I am then.
I would not put anything out now for sale if making new tracks as not worth the hassle and it is nice to give something for FREE to.
So a download site going under too me is just wrong and a massive mistake made somewhere, god help me I made a mistake in my business like that I would have to lay off 30 people, I suspect TID etc has a few works there.
Cheers for the info guys above nice to learn about how hardcore is doing now, shame it seems to be struggling, yet people push on so they do need some respect and support!
__________________________________
https://soundcloud.com/scott-devotion
FREE TRACKS & MIXES FROM MYSELF WHEN I WAS PARTICIPATING IN THE HARDCORE SCENE, HAVE NOT BEEN ACTIVE IN THE SCENE SINCE 2010
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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2014/02/18 : 14:46:24
quote:
Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
A lot of good points made above. I feel in hardcore as it is a small scene, the majors are without doubt using the label as there platform in return for album bookings and DJ sets out. There is no label in hardcore that can provide a living for it's owner nor album I would suspect.
Andy is so right, not many people do pay for music on-line any more, I used to see my tracks handed out to other DJs and then appear on illegal websites within weeks. I am surprised in the bad sales and that some of you guys say there worse than I thought. Saying that I have put out a few tracks free and in one week the latest one has only reached 146 d/l and that's free lol.
I look on TID and there is hardly any music on there I feel that constitutes to quality music, hence I thought the sales would be bigger now days for hardcore, how wrong I am then.
I would not put anything out now for sale if making new tracks as not worth the hassle and it is nice to give something for FREE to.
So a download site going under too me is just wrong and a massive mistake made somewhere, god help me I made a mistake in my business like that I would have to lay off 30 people, I suspect TID etc has a few works there.
Cheers for the info guys above nice to learn about how hardcore is doing now, shame it seems to be struggling, yet people push on so they do need some respect and support!
It's happening globally throughout the music industry.
For example, in 2013, streaming became included in the RIAA record certification. So, hypothetically, you can have a diamond certified release, without having sold a single unit at all... Not to mention the changes to RIAA certifications over the years.
Huge artists like Adele - who had the highest selling album in 2013 or 2012 i can't remember still reach multi-platinum certification - but the gap is getting bigger.
Sad state of affairs and it wont be the last company to go under. The future of music is free digital copies and higher fees for live events.
__________________________________
New Future Shock Hardcore: https://soundcloud.com/futureshockgroup
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Ionosphere
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,750 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
|
Posted - 2014/02/18 : 15:12:32
Is it possible that so many Hardcore tracks these days are a (wittingly or unwittingly) badly disguised copy of each other that
people can download something similar for free rather than pay for a 'new' track?
__________________________________
This- http://www.discogs.com/artist/Ionosphere
THIS - http://soundcloud.com/ionosphere
VIDEO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nYWkHCkaho
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2014/02/18 : 16:04:55
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
A lot of good points made above. I feel in hardcore as it is a small scene, the majors are without doubt using the label as there platform in return for album bookings and DJ sets out. There is no label in hardcore that can provide a living for it's owner nor album I would suspect.
Andy is so right, not many people do pay for music on-line any more, I used to see my tracks handed out to other DJs and then appear on illegal websites within weeks. I am surprised in the bad sales and that some of you guys say there worse than I thought. Saying that I have put out a few tracks free and in one week the latest one has only reached 146 d/l and that's free lol.
I look on TID and there is hardly any music on there I feel that constitutes to quality music, hence I thought the sales would be bigger now days for hardcore, how wrong I am then.
I would not put anything out now for sale if making new tracks as not worth the hassle and it is nice to give something for FREE to.
So a download site going under too me is just wrong and a massive mistake made somewhere, god help me I made a mistake in my business like that I would have to lay off 30 people, I suspect TID etc has a few works there.
Cheers for the info guys above nice to learn about how hardcore is doing now, shame it seems to be struggling, yet people push on so they do need some respect and support!
It's happening globally throughout the music industry.
For example, in 2013, streaming became included in the RIAA record certification. So, hypothetically, you can have a diamond certified release, without having sold a single unit at all... Not to mention the changes to RIAA certifications over the years.
Streaming is an increasingly viable way to monetize music though. Every friend I know has a Spotify these days. It's ridonkulous. Every RIAA chart I've seen has shown units sold and music revenue from released music plummet, even with digital format assimilating CD numbers. There needs to be a reaction from labels, and I think its encouraging that they've perhaps caught this ball quite cleanly. It's been a transition that shows more promise than the CD-digital transition witch saw the monumental **** up that Apple cashed in on.
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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2014/02/18 : 16:16:06
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
A lot of good points made above. I feel in hardcore as it is a small scene, the majors are without doubt using the label as there platform in return for album bookings and DJ sets out. There is no label in hardcore that can provide a living for it's owner nor album I would suspect.
Andy is so right, not many people do pay for music on-line any more, I used to see my tracks handed out to other DJs and then appear on illegal websites within weeks. I am surprised in the bad sales and that some of you guys say there worse than I thought. Saying that I have put out a few tracks free and in one week the latest one has only reached 146 d/l and that's free lol.
I look on TID and there is hardly any music on there I feel that constitutes to quality music, hence I thought the sales would be bigger now days for hardcore, how wrong I am then.
I would not put anything out now for sale if making new tracks as not worth the hassle and it is nice to give something for FREE to.
So a download site going under too me is just wrong and a massive mistake made somewhere, god help me I made a mistake in my business like that I would have to lay off 30 people, I suspect TID etc has a few works there.
Cheers for the info guys above nice to learn about how hardcore is doing now, shame it seems to be struggling, yet people push on so they do need some respect and support!
It's happening globally throughout the music industry.
For example, in 2013, streaming became included in the RIAA record certification. So, hypothetically, you can have a diamond certified release, without having sold a single unit at all... Not to mention the changes to RIAA certifications over the years.
Streaming is an increasingly viable way to monetize music though. Every friend I know has a Spotify these days. It's ridonkulous. Every RIAA chart I've seen has shown units sold and music revenue from released music plummet, even with digital format assimilating CD numbers. There needs to be a reaction from labels, and I think its encouraging that they've perhaps caught this ball quite cleanly. It's been a transition that shows more promise than the CD-digital transition witch saw the monumental **** up that Apple cashed in on.
Do you know what the rates are for a stream? It's literally between fractions of a cent to a few cents. It's literally NOTHING.
There was an article (a reputable publication) i read that was one of the recommended materials for one of my classes where it quoted a very famous musician (we're talking big, like beyonce or someone - i actually forget most of the details) that for a million downloads it equaled a few hundred dollars. That's it.
Streaming is NOTHING. And in it's current form is not solving any problems at all. It's a political smoke and mirrors tactic. I'll try and find the article and scan it. Might be an interesting read for you.
*EDIT* I'm also VERY sure (about 90%) that monetization from streaming works on a sliding scale. Not all streams are created equal - artists all get different amounts per stream based on a number of defining factors such as total plays, and history of number of plays. Diminishing returns plays a huge role here which is why one million downloads equaled the total sum of less than 10 tickets being purchased to a live show.
It also has nothing to do with record labels. They've resisted it for years and almost KILLED the whole streaming thing. Im telling you, the music industry as controlled by the big 3 (Sony, universal and warners) is ****ing breaking because of their unwillingness or inability to adapt.
I study this. It's a very ****ed situation.
__________________________________
New Future Shock Hardcore: https://soundcloud.com/futureshockgroup
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Edited by - Future_Shock on 2014/02/18 16:21:43 |
Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
|
Posted - 2014/02/18 : 17:14:20
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
A lot of good points made above. I feel in hardcore as it is a small scene, the majors are without doubt using the label as there platform in return for album bookings and DJ sets out. There is no label in hardcore that can provide a living for it's owner nor album I would suspect.
Andy is so right, not many people do pay for music on-line any more, I used to see my tracks handed out to other DJs and then appear on illegal websites within weeks. I am surprised in the bad sales and that some of you guys say there worse than I thought. Saying that I have put out a few tracks free and in one week the latest one has only reached 146 d/l and that's free lol.
I look on TID and there is hardly any music on there I feel that constitutes to quality music, hence I thought the sales would be bigger now days for hardcore, how wrong I am then.
I would not put anything out now for sale if making new tracks as not worth the hassle and it is nice to give something for FREE to.
So a download site going under too me is just wrong and a massive mistake made somewhere, god help me I made a mistake in my business like that I would have to lay off 30 people, I suspect TID etc has a few works there.
Cheers for the info guys above nice to learn about how hardcore is doing now, shame it seems to be struggling, yet people push on so they do need some respect and support!
It's happening globally throughout the music industry.
For example, in 2013, streaming became included in the RIAA record certification. So, hypothetically, you can have a diamond certified release, without having sold a single unit at all... Not to mention the changes to RIAA certifications over the years.
Streaming is an increasingly viable way to monetize music though. Every friend I know has a Spotify these days. It's ridonkulous. Every RIAA chart I've seen has shown units sold and music revenue from released music plummet, even with digital format assimilating CD numbers. There needs to be a reaction from labels, and I think its encouraging that they've perhaps caught this ball quite cleanly. It's been a transition that shows more promise than the CD-digital transition witch saw the monumental **** up that Apple cashed in on.
Do you know what the rates are for a stream? It's literally between fractions of a cent to a few cents. It's literally NOTHING.
There was an article (a reputable publication) i read that was one of the recommended materials for one of my classes where it quoted a very famous musician (we're talking big, like beyonce or someone - i actually forget most of the details) that for a million downloads it equaled a few hundred dollars. That's it.
Streaming is NOTHING. And in it's current form is not solving any problems at all. It's a political smoke and mirrors tactic. I'll try and find the article and scan it. Might be an interesting read for you.
*EDIT* I'm also VERY sure (about 90%) that monetization from streaming works on a sliding scale. Not all streams are created equal - artists all get different amounts per stream based on a number of defining factors such as total plays, and history of number of plays. Diminishing returns plays a huge role here which is why one million downloads equaled the total sum of less than 10 tickets being purchased to a live show.
It also has nothing to do with record labels. They've resisted it for years and almost KILLED the whole streaming thing. Im telling you, the music industry as controlled by the big 3 (Sony, universal and warners) is ****ing breaking because of their unwillingness or inability to adapt.
I study this. It's a very ****ed situation.
You're right about the inability to adapt, but from a business perspective, there's a good reason for the inability to change. They're big businesses running at a big loss; while you'd think that change is necessary, they're very nervous to make any big risks when the books are as they are. It's the same nervousness that has led to slashing budgets on music videos, album design and other areas.
The music industry has changed dramatically after it went digital. Musics migration to digital formats have been quick and the biggest labels to even ones as small as NEC aren't agile enough to move with the change. How exactly do big labels shed the weight and adapt their business models to adequately utilize the industry as it is now? If they're to make the most of digital and streaming, they need to downsize and become more versatile, but we know that as massive corporations with so much money invested in various areas, they can't do that with any haste.
I don't know the ins and outs for streaming, but I can understand why it makes so little money. Users pay to listen to it, not to own it. That instantly devalues the whole music industry if that becomes the primary way of listening to music. I have no idea how the RIAA can warrant listens counting towards certifications.
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