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StrifeII
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,143 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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 Posted - 2001/11/23 : 15:50:50
this is a contract. i want you to sign to say you will stick by happy hardcore whatever happens. This is going to be emailed to many brilliant happy hardcore artists. im trying to encourage everyone. the scene has got weaker since 97' and i want to go back to the golden years. Many artists are quitting...we cant let it happen.
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 http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Robbie_Jay/
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DJ Pathfinder
Advanced Member
Netherlands
1,676 posts
Joined: Oct, 2001
51 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2001/11/23 : 16:18:12
i cant say for al time
but i like for more than 10 year of house,hardcore & breakbeat.
You can't see me,because i am the future.
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You can't see me,because i am the future.
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Brian K
Advanced Member
United States
8,663 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
528 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2001/11/23 : 16:27:52
i'm pretty sure house is going to be around for a long time, it's too popular, and unfortunately will not die hehe 
i think the continuation of any music is up to the up and coming producers of today. the producers that have been in the business for a while, as much as we'd like them to stay, can't keep coming up with new stuff as years go on. the creativity seems to twindle as years go by with all the productions they do.
so it's up to fresh minds to come up with some inventive sounds, and i guess carry the torch on or something.
i mean just look at what our parents listened to, and how far we've come...
"do not dream, you dreamed about me"
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"we'll delete the weak"
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Midway_raver
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,032 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/23 : 21:56:30
well i promise this..i will stand by happy hardcore as long as it keeps making me feel the way it does now...:) ...... If sum1 can make a msuic taht give sme teh pure energy and compassion that hhc doe sthen maybe i will change but until the im hardcore till i die.......i can still c me now pullin out helter skelter discovery packs ertc n listnein to em when im 60+ HARDCORE WILL NEVER DIE (as long as liek u sed producers keep new stuff coming thru n we dont jst turn in2 anuva sub genre of tranc eliek hixxy n the liek r tryin to make us at teh mo..sorry but i really got a bag on with hixxy at teh minute lol
Ant B
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You will not laugh, You will not cry, You will learn by the numbers!
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/24 : 07:29:56
i,paul white,declare that i have listened to the music called happy hardcore since i was 13 years old and have never lost faith in it. happy hardcore is my all time favourite style of music and it will never leave me. and if i have listened to it for all these years I WILL KEEP LISTENING, PRODUCING,AND DJ-ING WITH, HAPPY HARDCORE TILL THE DAY I DIE!!!
signed,
DJ Mouse In Da House!!!
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StrifeII
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,143 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/26 : 17:01:19
soz about all this i was pissed out my head  but im surprised about the turnout...i meant to post the one about people slaggin each other off though..glad thats off my back!
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http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Robbie_Jay/
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http://www.myspace.com/strifeii
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/27 : 03:39:05
Part 1.....
From personal experience, I think I can explain what happened.
Many people producing hardcore back in 1990-1994, were quite young and still living at home with parents. We all enjoyed reasonable success, some had more success than others (Myself, Luna-C (Smarte's), Danny (Sonz of a loop), (Austin Reynolds (Sub base- too many acts to mention... + loads more), so we managed to stay afloat for a bit longer.
However as we all grew up, we moved out, had kids, got mortgages to pay, so when HH started to die off, we had to diversify. Even after Sesame's Treet, I know that myself Luna-C and Tom weren't as well off as others would imagine. So we had to do what we could the same as anyone else.
I hired out my studio to people, I wrote and produced a few tracks outside HH, and in general, just had to pay the bills the same as anyone else.
I kept my hand in the scene with a few tracks like the Piano Progression series with Kniteforce, Psy-Quest, because I always have and always will love hardcore, but mostly because of low sales at the time, had to eat, so we all did other stuff.
Then when Next Gen came along, the scene was beginning to lift again. I had resisted releasing "Sunshine On A Cloudy Day" on other labels for 2 years because I had to keep it exclusive in case I got a nice offer somewhere else.
However, when Ham spoke to me about NG, and the plan he and Brisk had, I was impressed by their drive and also their music. These guys were so confident, I was compelled to go with them. I mean they started a label, at the totally wrong time, BUT, their product was very good. So I was proud to have my tracks back in the scene. Then it lifted.
They had a "sound" that appealed to a new audience, and so the scene, IMHO began to go again. I know this because compilation licenses were rising, and 12" sales were back up to 3K units +.
Now we face a new threat, Napster and the like. Yeah I can hear you all groaning, "Not that old chesnut again", but its true. Artists have to sell records. And in a tiny genre like this, just 500 records can make a big difference. Thats the little bit that turns a loss making press into a small profit, which means we get our cut, and feel good about releasing new stuff again.
If, across the whole world, just 500 people download a track rather than pay the $10 for the plastic, that could send a label under. You may doubt it but it's true, because if a label does that twice, and they can't ride it, then it goes under. Simple.
This is one of the reasons why I asked here a while ago about CD singles. If there's another format that we can press in and up the sales, then that will enable me personally, to write songs that will be released exclusively in HH first. All the tracks you hear from me, pretty much get released on HH before any other genre. Why? Because I will always be grateful to the scene for the rest of my life, for what it's done for me. And if I can do this for ever, I will.
"Shooting Star", "Til The Day I Die", etc etc were all out in HH first, they are YOUR exclusives, they will always belong to YOUR scene, no matter how many times they're covered in other genres in the future.
As for the artists, well, I personally do have other projects that enable me to carry on in the HH scene. Not to earn a living as such, but because I love it. But there are many many very talented people who are forced to leave and work elsewhere because they have to earn a living.
Sometimes these great artists come back, sometimes they don't.
One last point, if good remixers/artists/writers/DJ's are forced to go to other genres such as house, hard house, trance, etc, then there may be a reduction in quality on the scene. It'll be left with people that dont create HH professionally, but as a hobby. This will have the effect of the quality of the tracks you hear won't be as high.
Silver has taken a very brave step here and created a brand new label MasterWax, and Luna-C has started KF again. No doubt in the very near future you will see new labels crop up with quality tracks and artists, if you want to keep them, then buy their product.
We understand you can get trax from the web, but every download kills this little scene.
Support your scene, Downloads kill HH.
Enuff talking.....
Nick
Blaze!
Edited by - Nick of Blaze! on 27 Nov 2001 03:44:36
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DJ Pathfinder
Advanced Member
Netherlands
1,676 posts
Joined: Oct, 2001
51 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2001/11/27 : 03:45:25
RESPECT!!
ALSO TO SILVER & LUNA C
sorry silver for the all caps
You can't see me,because i am the future.
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You can't see me,because i am the future.
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Oli G
Advanced Member
United States
1,817 posts
Joined: Oct, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/27 : 14:00:46
i Personaly dont think napster IS killing this small scene
my view maybe a bit distorted (someone correct me please.. nick im sure ull be first)
Djs buy 12" records? or people with decks.. or people with a vinyl fetish...
as you dont release tracks on CD format.. the download of an MP3 isnt stoping someone buying your vinyl?
as even if you do get the mp3.. this is still useless to the dj or vinyl collector unless for a listning format..
if im blatantly wrong.. or if someone can show me how downloads are killing the scene ill delete Audiogalaxy now and go out and buy the cds (in fact that sounds like a good plan anyway when my loan comes thru :D)
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Hardcore Underground 4 - Released October 19th
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/27 : 17:59:25
i heard a report saying napster and audiogalaxy IMPROVED record sales.
because dj's downloaded the tunes and if they liked it,they bought the 12" afterwards.
ok the vast majority replaced 12" with an mp3 on their computer,but remember it increased sales to a certain extent.
DJ Mouse In Da House!!!
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/28 : 03:48:22
OK... you've raised two very important points here.... I'll explain briefly why....
The first point by OliGhalebi says that people in this scene can only get the tracks on vinyl, so therefore they're people with decks with whom MP3's are useless.
This is true, but there's also a lot of people who buy compilation albums such as Moonshine, Bonkers, Absolute Hardcore, etc etc...
These people are usually not DJ's but fans that like hardcore. Now if those same people can get all those tunes from a compilation from the web, they MAY not go out and buy that CD. If that gets to such a degree that these compilation people say, "Well whats the point of releasing a new compilation?" then the scene suffers. Sometimes, those compilation royalties subsidise the vinyl that goes out.
You may have noticed over the last year or two, very few compilations being released compared with 98,99...
I'm not saying that Napster and suchlike are the reason, but they are a contributing factor.
I notice that the "Happy 2b Hardcore" series is at an end, although I've been assured that the same compilations will return under a fresh new name. (I have actually seen a link on a site with the whole "Happy 2b hardcore " series on MP3 download).
You are however perfectly correct in saying that actual vinyl sales are not affected by Napster because you DJ's like yer vinyl BAAAAAAD... and that's cool, but there has been a trend over the last year or so with HH sales dropping considerably.....
HOWEVER...... the trend is slowly changing...and that brings me the point made by DJ Mouse.....
I cant go into the whole thing here because its impossible to explain in such a small space, Napster, DOES improve record sales, its a known fact that after a few years of panic, record companies realise that having your tracks on Napster actually increases awareness of an artist, and people who wouldn't normally go out and buy their records...er.... go out and buy their records...!!!
Thats cool, but it doesn't apply here.
HH is such a small genre that you can't get a distribution deal that will put your 12" records in every store around the world. So if someone for instance likes "Shooting Star", and the go to their nearest Tower Records and can't get it.... they might not know about IMO or Next Generation Records, so that's a sale lost.
If the track was on CD, and you had enough capital to press say 5000 units, and the scene had a big enough profile that people say... "Jeeeez.... that new KniteForce tracks out this week... I heard it on the radio...." then yeah, that's cool, chances are, Napster would increase sales cos people would download it and say... "I gotta buy that!"....
But, because most HH labels cant afford that sort of pressing costs, the only manage to get out 1000 units. Dont forget, its really expensive to press 100 units, so when your 1000 starter press has gone, and you have to do a re-press... you gotta be pretty sure your gonna sell the next 500 or you'll get them returned from the distributor.... and your capitals tied up in 400 records that will take ages to sell mail order.
Large record compaines however in larger genres that sell around 5000 units minimum, LOVE napster, because word gets round the web fast...
and when Darudes new tracks out, you'll get everyone searching for it on Napster..... The record company loves it cos they know that .....ok...... 50,000 people may DL it, but even if they get 10% to buy it...thats 5,000 units sold... they can live with that. And lets face it, it's free distribution and promotion.
Also, and this is a good point here, you have to remember that music royalties are divided into two halves. You have Sales Royalties and Publishing Royalties.
They are completely seperate.
Your sales royalties are from the actual 12" records, CD's, Tapes, DVD's etc etc that go to a record company releasing the track, and the Publishing Royalties are from Airplays, Mechanicals, Public Performances etc etc... they go to the writer, OR a publishing company that represents the writer/s.
Now in most cases, big record companies own the publishing rights as well as the actual sales rights. So, when a track is really popular on Napster, and it gets all round the world and loads of radio stations start playing it, and compilation companies say..."hey, we want that on our compilation too", and some artist wants to "cover" the track... the record company cleans up, they get both sets of royalties.
I'm playing devils advocate here really, because from a writers point of view, Napster is fantastic. My songs have reached the four corners of the globe (!) and so thats good for me, but there's a lot of people in the scene that don't have that, and it's those we need to support.
HH isn't a very big genre. And let's face it, we like it that way. It's a private genre, that is almost "secret".
So, DON'T delete Audiogalaxy..... Don't remove, Napster, Grokster, Aimster etc etc,
Don't go out and spend your hard earned cash on a track just because you want to support the scene...
Download every bit of hardcore you can......
But when you find that track that gives you that tingle..... that track that you've listened to 10 times and still gives you a buzz.....
Buy the plastic......
Hopefully that's shed a bit of light onto the subject.
Cheers everyone...
Nick
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Midway_raver
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United Kingdom
1,032 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/28 : 19:01:23
Ok first of All Happy Hardcore IS a small genre defiently.... and then teh number of ravers that have access to the internet is even smaller.....So if Dj's are downloading tunes ( which they are then gonna buy on vinyl ) thats GOOD! if sum1 who has never herd hhc downloads hhc by mistake n like sit thats anuva person who cud potentilayy buy teh music and influenece others into listening ......etc etc THis is good too, I admit i download Happy Hardcore on mp3, Alot of the tune si cannot get on tape nor cd, nor vinyl...And as a happy hardcore fan if i like a track i feel entitled to have it if i cnt find it neware els ei see that as my rite:) sorry but i do, Also if i were a producer which hopefully when im old er i will be...then on one hand i wud love for my music to b spre dn herd by 1000's of peeps who wudnt usually hear it ..btu then it all boils back down to money i geuss ... maybe napster n audiogalaxy shud find sum1 of lettin downloads happen but not make teh mp3's convertable to cd (those with copywright neway) n that wud allow users to listen n keep trax for listenin please yet not allow em to have cd's opf it ( for car n stereo etc ) thus makin peopel go out n buy teh tape/cd/vinyl if they really liek a track..therefore evry1 wins:) thats just my opinion anyway......N a point to Nick... big up for producing some of teh finest HHC i ever herd....n also for stickin by HHC when liek u se du sumtimes only jst cover ur costs nowadys:) That shows a true comitment.....Thanx alot mate:) for stickin by teh scene i know n will always love:) also doe sit make u feel good to know that sumtime sumwhere a kid is downloadin ur trak at the age of 14 / 15 say n UR music is influencin him/her top join teh scene?! I no that wud make me feel hella proud n forgettin a money for a mo i think that summat to b proud of
Ant B
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You will not laugh, You will not cry, You will learn by the numbers!
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,564 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2001/11/28 : 21:15:49
Okay think of it this way, you spent the last 2-3 years learning how to bake cakes, when you first started they were not so good, but now they are really good and people admire your work, so you save all your money up and buy all the expensive cake making machines and build a shop and invite people to come and buy the cakes, you offer little taste tests of the cake but you ask could people please buy them. How would you feel if people just walked into your shop and took your cakes without paying you and didn't even care about you.
Yep, you would get angry, and try to stop people stealing your cakes.
Same for music...
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you, me and hardcore forever.
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/29 : 06:42:57
hehehe thats dead right Silver....
or how about, someone sets up a stall outside your cake shop, runs in, steals your secret recipe, starts baking cakes just as good and GIVES them away, BUT.. because they get loads of customers, someone like Coca-Cola puts an ad on his stall and gives him a million dollars!
And everytime, you baked a new cake, that everyone loved, all your customers waited until the stall had them for free, then went and got one.
You'd soon give up baking cakes!
Midway_raver, it's freedom of the web. I'm not saying, don't download HH, I'm saying that if you hear a tune you like a lot, then buy the plastic. And for you personally, I know you would without a doubt, so you don't apply here.
You guys care passionately for the scene and you DO buy the plastic, but there'll be that time when a friend of yours listens to Heart Of Gold everyday in his car, who has got no intewntion of buying the plastic, and yet gets hours of pleasure out of it, for what is, lets face it, the price of a couple of McDonalds Meals. I know what I'd prefer!
It is great knowing that people listen to your music, and also that people like yourself enjoy it.
But if as you say, thousands of people download it and get to like it, then you run the risk of it getting popular and hitting the charts. I thought that's what everyone doesn't want? Then you will have the big record companies involved, and once that happens, no one can stop it. They see a BIG BUCK, not just a living wage and they cash in on it.
I mean Sesame's Treet is on a few mainstream com;pilations now. That's what happens when the marketeers see a demand. Unfortunately, one day, all the HH tunes of the last few years will go like this. But I as an artist cant stop that, and yet ironically, I will get the blame "for going commercial" !!!
I don't think its possible to not allow MP3's to be converted. I'm sure the day that's invented, some bright spark will write a patch to avoid it.
They tried it years ago with SCMS.
Thank you very much tho for the credit you gave me, it is much appreciated. It's great also that you can come back after a little while, and have a new release that people seem to like a lot. Proves that you can still do the business!!!! hehehehe
I wish you every success in your HH producing career, and if you ever need any advice, then please write me, I'll do anything I can to help potential producers in this scene especially. Here's hoping that one day you'll be remixing Shooting Star for me.
Cheers
Nick
PS.... I run a website called the Vocal Factory (www.vocalfactory.com). We'll be running a new Blaze! release Vocal Project soon, and will be inviting potential unknown hardcore remixers to download the bare vocals and have a go for the next release. You'll get paid for your work, so have a look around the site and be ready for the announcement. You might launch your career earlier than you think!
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/29 : 11:37:15
i heard about scms,that's where only one digital copy can be made then the next is blocked isn't it? or something like that anyway.
DJ Mouse In Da House!!!
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RaverBaby69
Average Member
United Kingdom
234 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2001/11/29 : 15:43:58
i personally would rather have hhc on cd's, tapes or woteva rather than have mp3's because its more of an achievement to me (I hope I'm making sense here) someone help me explain what i mean!!!!
Hey Smokey I know u don't smoke weed but i'm gonna make u high 2nite coz its friday, u ain't got no job and u aint got s*it to do!
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"I'm having the best time being off my pickle and feelin the music"
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