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silver
Admin
Japan
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Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2004/03/01 : 08:02:44
Poll Question:
Should record labels that release hardcore cover versions license the original hardcore version and include it on the cover version release?
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Results: (228 votes counted so far)
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| Yes |
 (45.0%) |
205 votes |
| No |
(5.0%) |
23 votes |
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djDMS
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2004/03/01 : 09:48:43
I voted No.
I'd actually prefer NEW Hardcore mixes to be included with the release - like AATW have done in the past.
Including old Hardcore mixes might be good for some but I don't remember ever seeing a release of a dance version of an '80s tune with the original included.
May i suggest an alternative?
Silver, why not just buy up the back catologue to some more old Hardcore labels and repress the tunes?
I'd definitely buy to fill the gaps in my collection!
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Underloop
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2004/03/01 : 10:04:24
I'm not voting on this one coz I don't mind either way. It really depends wether teh label thinks it would fit in with their release.
As DMS said, how many original trance tracks have made it onto the hardcore rips?
It would however be nice to see a NEW hardcore mix licenced when a hardcore track is covered.... it might appease (sp?) a few moaning ravers 
Matthew aka DJ Underloop
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing."
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genericrevolution
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United Kingdom
173 posts
Joined: Feb, 2004
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Posted - 2004/03/01 : 12:57:14
if they have remixed a bootleg or white label I don't see they should have the right to license the original version!
obviously with remixing other labels material its up to them to get permission and copyright on their remix and the original should be looked after by its own label with regards to copyright. (if you see what I mean???)
but what if someone wants to remix a remix??!!?
i.e. artist makes choon on quosh
artist 2 - remixes it on Essential Platinum
artist 3 wants to remix Essential Platinum Version on Evolution??!?!?!
then how do you tackle that....
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Underloop
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
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Posted - 2004/03/02 : 10:53:34
quote:
Originally posted by genericrevolution:
if they have remixed a bootleg or white label I don't see they should have the right to license the original version!
obviously with remixing other labels material its up to them to get permission and copyright on their remix and the original should be looked after by its own label with regards to copyright. (if you see what I mean???)
but what if someone wants to remix a remix??!!?
i.e. artist makes choon on quosh
artist 2 - remixes it on Essential Platinum
artist 3 wants to remix Essential Platinum Version on Evolution??!?!?!
then how do you tackle that....
Theres 2 sorts of copyright at play here. One is the copyright to the actual recording... the so-called MECHANICAL copyright, and the other is the copyright to the music (ie the actual notes which are played) known as teh PUBLISHING rights.
The writer of the song will ALWAYS own the publishing rights to the song, and the mechanical rights are owned by whoever makes the recording of that song
So, to use your example:
Quosh write and record a song.... lets call it "I Eat Hardcore for my Tea" (RANDOM!!!). Quosh own the publishing rights to that track, and also the mechanical rights to all recordings making up that track.
If Essential Platinum wanted to REMIX (that is make a new mix using the vocals recorded by Quosh) then they would first need permission off Quosh to do the remix, and then they would need to LICENCE the track from Quosh.
Essential Platinum could, however, re-record the vocals themselves, in which case they would own the mechanical rights to that recording. This s known as a COVER. However, depending on the age of the track they may need to get permission off Quosh to cover the track. I think the cut off point is 5 years after the first exploitation (release) of the song. Before that point they need to get permission directly from Quosh as well as arrange royaltie levels. After that point they just need to register their intent with the PRS and pay royalties (No permission needed I think).
If Evolution then come along and want to remix Essential Platinum's track then it depends wether Essential Platinum have REMIXED or COVERED the original.
If they REMIXED it then all copyright is still owned by Quosh, so Evolution would need to approach Quosh and seek permission and licencing in exactly the same manner as Essential Platinum did.
If EP COVERED the original track then Evolution would need permission from Essential Platinum for teh mechanical rights and to licence the track. Depending on the age of the track they would also need permission of Quosh for the publishing (I think). Its starting to get quite complicated now, and the income the track will generate for Evolution is falling and falling (only income would be due to sales - which is very small).
What is more likely would be for Evolution to COVER the original, in the same manner described previously.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and the above info may be complete BS.... its just my understanding of the system. If you want proper advice then consult a lawyer. 
Matthew aka DJ Underloop
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
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silver
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Japan
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Posted - 2004/03/02 : 14:59:39
^^^ no that is quite correct.
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genericrevolution
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Posted - 2004/03/02 : 15:24:25
remember the NAUGHTY NAUGHTY series back in early nineties!
I bet they never did the copyrights etc (LOL)
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silver
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Posted - 2004/03/03 : 03:10:22
There are alot of labels that use samples sure, that is hardcore but for the most part it's cleared one way or another.
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genericrevolution
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Posted - 2004/03/03 : 09:20:11
I have made a few tracks in the past... how do I go about the copyright on them?
they are all original sounds and played by myself and a friend (no samples from other tracks)
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Underloop
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Posted - 2004/03/03 : 14:02:10
quote:
Originally posted by genericrevolution:
I have made a few tracks in the past... how do I go about the copyright on them?
they are all original sounds and played by myself and a friend (no samples from other tracks)
The law in the UK is that as soon as you create something original then you own the copyright automatically.
However, the problem comes when somebody claims they made the same track before you. You need to be able to prove when you made teh track. The traditional way to do it is to send it to yourself recorded delivery in a sealed package, and DO NOT OPEN the package. Some people also datestamp all the seals to show it hasn't been tampered with. Then keep itin a safe place. Maybe lodge it with your solicitor, or in a safety deposit box or whatever.
There are other ways, but this is the simplest, and stands up in a court of law.
The Law is different in the US regarding copyright ownership, and you actually have to register the copyright before you actualy own it. Not sure on contact details for this however.
Matthew aka DJ Underloop
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
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genericrevolution
Average Member
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Posted - 2004/03/03 : 14:22:19
that is one sound piece of advise (no pun intended)... possibly the best advise I have ever had about making choonz... thanks matthew... I will pass this onto my friend who has made LOADS of choonz but never sent any out in fear of being ripped off etc. (we have heard of this done loads of times - company says no good and then does a cover version next month!)
on a joking side of it... is it as bad as sending yourself a valentines card or using two mobile phones and ringing your other number to pretend you have friends     
((((JOKE - I don't do this - {often} ))))
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